Enjoying freedom

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Posts by Enjoying freedom

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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Nicolau - that sounds promising!

  It could be argued that the child's right to life (Article 2 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms) overrides the parents rights to freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Article 9 of the European Convention etc etc).

  Article 2 is an absolute right and will override Article 9 which is not an absolute right.

  Therefore the parents are entitled to their own religious beliefs, but if the life of the child is at stake then their right to religious beliefs must, in law, take second place.

  What is unclear however is what the unborn child's right to life is under legislation (I am not talking about an ethical debate here, merely what the law says and will allow).

  In H v Norway (1990) app no 1700/90 the Commission said that each State had a wide discretion to decide what age an unborn child could be lawfully aborted. This may be different where the child is capable of a viable existence once delivered because the Commission stated that it would not exclude that in certain circumstances an unborn child may enjoy protection under Article 2.

  So you would have to (a) make a case to prove that the unborn child has the right to life under Article 2 and (b) then make the case stating that the Article 2 rights of the unborn child will override the Article 9 rights of the parents to religious beliefs.

  Enjoying freedom
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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Anglise - I agree!

  I wonder if it could be argued that a JW parent who refuses life saving treatment for their child is guilty of child abuse?? Could the longer term custody of that child be under consideration?? I wonder what the NSPCC would think of the situation??
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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Medical treatment should only be proposed for a child of any age (ie a person under the age of 18) if the treatment is considered to be in the child's best interests. Case law has established that the patient's best interests are not limited to best medical interests (Re: MB (Medical Treatmenht)[1997] 2 FLR 426) but also encompass "medical, emotional and all other welfare issues" (Butler-Sloss in Re A (Male Sterilisation)[2000] 1 FLR 549.

  However in Re: S (A Minor) Medical Treatment) [1983] 1 FLR 376 the judge held that "the court, exercising its prerogative of protection should be very slow to allow an infant to martyr himself".

  In Re: L (Medical Treatment: Gillick Competency) [1998] 2 FLR 811 a 14 year old child had not been given information about the distressing nature of her inevitable deaht if she did not have a blood transfusion. The judge found at 813 that the failure to provide the information was material to his finding gthat she was not Gillick competrent because "it is quite clear that she has not been able to be given all the details which it would be right and appropriate to have in mind when making such a decision".

  Equally pertinent is the case of Re T (Adult: Refusal of Medical Treatment) [1992] 4 All ER 649 where Lord Donaldson said "The real question in each case is, Does the patient really mean that he says or is he merely saying it for a quiet life, to satisfy someone else or because the advice and persuasion to which he has been subjected is such that he can no longer think and decide for himself? In other words, Is it a decision in form only, not in reality?". He went on to say that when considering the effect of outside influences, two aspects can be of crucial importance. They are the strength of will of the patient and the relationship of the "persuader" to the patient. With regard to the latter, his Lorship said that the "influence of parents on their children...can be, but is by no means necessarilyi, much stronger than would be the case in other relationships".

  If the doctor proposing treatment considers the child has been subject to undue pressure by another person (be it friends, family, elders, Hospital Liaison Committee etc), then the decision of the child is not valid. Emergency treatment to prevent death or a serious deterioration can be given if the care team consider it in the best interests of the child, however if there is sufficient time a court order should be sought before treatment commences.

  For further detailed information I would strongly recommend that the reader refers to "The Mental Health Act Manual" by Richard Jones, 9th edition, published by Sweet and Maxwell. There is a whole section in the back of the book relating to the common law and the law relating to medical treatment of children.

  It is time that children are protected from the dangerous decisions made by their parents who are under the influence of a life destroying cult that cares nothing for human kindness and wellbeing.

  Enjoying freedom
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  31

  Help - running out of "excuses" for not attending meetings

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my situation as some of you know, i'm married and my wife is a jw and still wants to go to meetings.

  i on the other hand do not.. over the last few years, i have suffered with poor health and i also studied, so when i was studying i would say "i'm at college/doing homework/taking exams" which for the most part was true.. i also have ill health, suffer with chronic chest infections for part of the year.. trouble is, people at the hall are having a hard time buying my excuses, or if my wife tells them the reason i'm not there, they now start giving her the eyeroll, or they say to her "well, you're here and so am i.".

  not one of the elders calls to see where i am, what they can do.

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  Enjoying freedom

  I told my husband at a circuit assembly (outside in the corrider during a talk!!) that I was never ever coming to another meeting again.

  I have never been to another meeting.

  Two elders called round to see me - I told them that if living forever in Paradise meant being stuck til the end of time with people like them then I would rather not bother.

  They haven't called again.

  That was 7 years ago. My husband now hardly goes to any meetings.

  You have to be strong and stick to your guns, whilst at all times being polite and friendly to any approaches, or shunning, made by JWs (although inside you may want to inflict serious physical pain on some of the mindless JW idiots!).

  Someone somewhere in each family has to be the one to start the ball rolling on the road to freedom from the religion.

  Keep us posted on your progress!
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  15

  Besides JWs Being "The Happiest People On Earth", What Else Are They?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends
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  Enjoying freedom

  What a scarily accurate list Lady Lee!
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  52

  A desperate time for JW as realisation inevitable dawns .....

  by Gill in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in time, slowly and inevitably, a lot of jws will realise that they have been conned.

  they may deny it at first but eventually a substantial amount will discover that they have lost their lives, their talents and their potential to of all things, a book publishing company!.

  so, what will their reactions be?

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  Enjoying freedom

  Terry - what a great illustration (you must have been listening well at the theocratic ministry school!!).

  There are an increasing number of JWs who wouldn't know what the doctrines are if you explained it to them. They would think you are making it up (I have personal experience of this). This is more prevelant in JWs who are raised as JWS - they never seem to understand and grasp the main points of the religion.

  They just continue the habit that is hammered into them from young, that you need to attend meetings, go out on the ministry and shun DF'd ones.

  Average age and length of stay of JWs would be a very interesting study!
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  18

  This girl "wants" to die.

  by Hiddenwindow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  she was given a blood transfusion and her condition improved, but she is appearing in court to petition her own death.

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  here is indoctrination for you.. http://winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2007/10/26/4606617-sun.html.

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  Enjoying freedom

  If I were advising the medical team I would get them to assess her capacity around this issue.

  I know that a patient with capacity can make their own decisions, even if they seem to be the "wrong" decision.

  But a key thing to remember is that the decision the patient makes must be their own decision and they must not be put under any undue influence from an external source, ie from family, religions leaders etc. (there is case law about this).

  Does the medical team fully understand the significant of the emotional blackmail that this girl is under - an insiduous form of blackmail that the victim themselves does not know they are subjec to? Ie if you accept a blood transfusion it is take to be an automatic dissaociation on your part, and therefore let the shunning commence, with all the nasty side effects that we know that has.

  If this girl is a minor then she will of course be dependent on family for her home, food, welfare etc - in her mind how could she seriously contemplate going against her family's religion??? She is having a hard enough time dealing with her illness. It takes great strength of character to make your own decision and go against your family wishes in this instance - a young girl with a serious illness doesn't stand a chance.
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  26

  College: Watchtower Counsel Is Poison And Wrong

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not an inspired prophet - nevertheless, let me tell you what the future will be for ordinary, middle.

  class people in the united states:.

  inflation is going to accelerate and making a living for families is only going to get more difficult.. the real standard of living in the us may fall.

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  Enjoying freedom

  I get so angry when you get elders on the platform telling JW youngsters not to get an education, to get a job that pays a basic wage and pioneer, ie put jehovah first and all will be well.

  What these elders don't mention is that they only came into the religion late in life, had already obtained an education/qualification, had a good job, bought a nice house in the country, great car etc, and werre living off a good pension from that employment.

  And then those same elders have the audacity to stand on the platform at the assembly hall and preach to others about the importance of leading a simple life.

  It makes my blood boil!

  Conversely I know of two elders who are both window cleaners, in their 50's, and hate the job. They said that they feel constantly tired and don't know how long they keep going with the physical demands of the job, but they have no choice. They have to earn a living somehow and this is the only job they can now do. They have no qualifications, and what sort of pension can you have if you have been a windowcleaner for the majority of your life?? That is so sad.
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  14

  Is Jehovah a Lurker?

  by Clam in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does he visit, read the posts, but is too nervous of taking the plunge?

  is he intimidated by the atheists, afraid of being outed, wary of the cliques, or even put off by the trevorgatea scandal?.

  does he lurk on the board like he lurks on humanity?

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  Enjoying freedom

  If he/she/it, I think he/she/it is far too much of a self absorbed megalomaniac with psychopathic tendencies to even consider caring about what other people think of a society that claims to represent him/her/it and the destruction and misery that he/she/it has brought to untold millions of lives.

  That is if he/she/it even exists - as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on that one!
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  11

  For Sale...

  by Princess Daisy Boo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a copy of "reasoning from the scriptures"... hardly used, as good as new... will sell to the highest bidder... any takers?.

  (found this in the bottom of a box that i sorted out today - and i thought i had gotten rid of all my society literature!

  ).

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  Enjoying freedom

  My view is that either you keep the literature in case you need it to refer to in evidence at a later date for any reason (ie something concrete to prove they are liars!).

  Alternatively, shred it and put it in the recycling box.

  It is a dangerous thing to hand / or sell these books to members of the unsuspecting public who may believe the rubbish that is written on the pages......imagine how bad we would feel if they became a baptized JW after buying a book from an exJW!!!